Declan Rice: Cooking Again

[Xln]

2023/2024 champions if it was not the best team ever. Except the City teams Liverpool competed was better and amassed more points

City won quadruple last season, not when Pool were competing with them

 

[Xln]

True. But I’m sure he will get better at it imo. It’s one of the area I’m sure he is working hard in.

You can't work on vision. You have it or you don't.

 

[MikelHadADream]

I disagree actually, because why build a technical possession based team to progress play centrally in the last three years?

I understand we need physicality and athleticism, especially in England. However, if stylistically the plan is technical precision and quick interplay; Rice isn't the right profile to spend £105m on. He could've done smarter business to get this type of balance.

May look foolish complaining in the midst of a title race, which I'm glad about. But there has to be some questions because of inconsistent performances.

I think Rice is a big part of the way Arteta wants to play, especially without the ball. He’s a defensive machine that allows us to play either on the half way line with his interceptions, or in a mid/deep block. The way he allowed us to suffocate gives us easy possession.

You’re only looking at this from how we play on the ball, where I do think you have a point about ball progression.

 

[db10_therza]

I think Rice is a big part of the way Arteta wants to play, especially without the ball. He’s a defensive machine that allows us to play either on the half way line with his interceptions, or in a mid/deep block. The way he allowed us to suffocate gives us easy possession.

You’re only looking at this from how we play on the ball, where I do think you have a point about ball progression.

I think we’re still stuck in a paradigm of looking at players as individuals instead of looking at the attributes of the team. In a world where Arteta manages every detail of where / how the players interact on the pitch the latter matters much more than the former.

It’s why someone like Havertz can work so well up front for us even though on an individual level you think of him as a striker and it’s all “brother euuuggghhh, what’s that brotherrr?”. Because his attributes fill in gaps that we had.

Rice brings world class physicality, defensive awareness, solidity and so on. We’re like maxing out the charts as a team in these areas now.

We need to add central ball progression as an attribute- this will be addressed in the summer I’m sure. It doesn’t matter that Rice can’t turn on a six pence and release Saka while under pressure. What matters is that someone can, and once we have that someone Arteta will just move his chess pieces around so that we can do this repeatedly and mechanically.

The attributes we lack currently (imo) are central progression in the first phase, elite level pace on the counter (unless Nelly rediscovers himself) and ruthlessness in finishing.

The way Arteta works, we don’t need an individual with say both ruthless finishing and world class pace (although that would be nice). He just needs them pieces on the board and then his job is to come up with a repeatable strategy that means we can expose those attributes on the pitch.

In the case of Rice and central progression under pressure - there’s like 10 different ways we could do it. Whether it’s a new left 8 swapping with him in build up, or a left back, or Rice himself dropping to the first line so he can now face the play and spread the ball instead of receiving it with his back to play. There’s a whole bunch of permutations that will work.

It’s about systems and attributes, not individuals.

Disclaimer: This will win us the league in our near future. But for the champs league we need the final attribute: xHim

 

[BigPoppaPump]

I think Rice is a big part of the way Arteta wants to play, especially without the ball. He’s a defensive machine that allows us to play either on the half way line with his interceptions, or in a mid/deep block. The way he allowed us to suffocate gives us easy possession.

You’re only looking at this from how we play on the ball, where I do think you have a point about ball progression.

We see time and time again Arteta talk about how important winning duels is for him and Rice is one of the best at it.

However I don’t think he has the skills to play as a 6 for this team we saw how hard it was to create chances and we were relying mostly on set pieces and deflections to score.

It all ended up with our awful run in December where we eventually had to move him to 8 and bring Jorginho at the 6 which turned us into the best team in the league. You won’t win trophies with him as a 6.

 

[Maybe]

However I don’t think he has the skills to play as a 6 for this team we saw how hard it was to create chances and we were relying mostly on set pieces and deflections to score.

Surely the reason for that is that we don't have LF and LCM?

 

[Blankety Blank]

I mean, that's a 200M package, surely this is expected in return

£165-£170m actually

Cheaper than Caciedo/Mudryk at Chelsea.

Anthony & Sancho at Man U prob similar fee?

Fact is loads of players don't meet their price tags

 

[MikelHadADream]

We see time and time again Arteta talk about how important winning duels is for him and Rice is one of the best at it.

However I don’t think he has the skills to play as a 6 for this team we saw how hard it was to create chances and we were relying mostly on set pieces and deflections to score.

It all ended up with our awful run in December where we eventually had to move him to 8 and bring Jorginho at the 6 which turned us into the best team in the league. You won’t win trophies with him as a 6.

In the current set up, especially with Havertz as the other 8, I’m inclined to agree.

If we go with a more traditional midfield three, with the number number 8s a bit deeper next to Rice, I think he’d be fine. It depends whether Arteta wants to change his way of playing.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Surely the reason for that is that we don't have LF and LCM?

No it’s because Jorginho was bought into the team. Did you not see how we started playing once we change it up?

 

[Blankety Blank]

2023/2024 champions if it was not the best team ever. Except the City teams Liverpool competed was better and amassed more points

Perhaps?
115 charges have set the highest bar ever.
Dissin the treble winners is still a bit of a reach tho bro

If you get 80+ points in the Prem you have had a very good season.

We have done that for 2 seasons now.

 

[Heavy Duty Rom]

No it’s because Jorginho was bought into the team. Did you not see how we started playing once we change it up?

Until Rice plays 6 with an actual ball playing LCM, you cannot say this for sure.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Until Rice plays 6 with an actual ball playing LCM, you cannot say this for sure.

We have a ball playing fullbacks that go into midfield. We don’t need a ball playing LCM we need one at DM.

 

[fute]

Is he a 6 or an 8?

Or it depends?

Either way, defense is his best skillset.

 

[Bloodbather]

On the contrary, he’s exactly what Arteta is looking for. Arteta has mentioned before the need for physicality and athleticism in the team, and Rice is the best in the world in this aspect.

Arteta has built the most physical team in the world that can also play, and Rice is a massive part of that.

The value Arteta puts in physicality and athleticism is constantly understated. We are City-like in many ways, but one part we're trying to get an edge over them is physicality and athleticism.

 

[Maybe]

We have a ball playing fullbacks that go into midfield. We don’t need a ball playing LCM we need one at DM.

I'm almost certain Arteta will bring in LF and LCM this summer so we'll see then if the problem was Rice or not. Half solutions like Martinelli and Jorginho plus Havertz failing as a midfielder didn't help us understand what we have in Rice and if it's worth it

 

[BigPoppaPump]

I'm almost certain Arteta will bring in LF and LCM this summer so we'll see then if the problem was Rice or not. Half solutions like Martinelli and Jorginho plus Havertz failing as a midfielder didn't help us understand what we have in Rice and if it's worth it

Attest isn’t going to play the midfielders deeper when he uses the fullbacks for that instead. We’ve been linked to DMs rather than CMs.

Rice is just not a 6 for an elite team, but can do really well as an 8.

 

[MikelHadADream]

The value Arteta puts in physicality and athleticism is constantly understated. We are City-like in many ways, but one part we're trying to get an edge over them is physicality and athleticism.

Yep, look at most of his recent signings. 6ft plus that can play. The types of players the media slammed Wenger for not going for in the early Emirates era.

Even our smaller players, Saka and Ødegaard, are physical freaks in their own way.

 

[fute]

Yep, look at most of his recent signings. 6ft plus that can play. The types of players the media slammed Wenger for not going for in the early Emirates era.

Even our smaller players, Saka and Ødegaard, are physical freaks in their own way.

What about Raya?

 

[Heavy Duty Rom]

We have a ball playing fullbacks that go into midfield. We don’t need a ball playing LCM we need one at DM.

Fine, a LCM whose sole job isn’t to crash the ball and win aerial duels.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Fine, a LCM whose sole job isn’t to crash the ball and win aerial duels.

It helps to put pressure on the oppositon back line when they're trying to pass out the back which is important.

In my eyes winning duels is the most important thing to Arteta because you can take more risks when you know you can win the ball back. Rice is one of the best players in the world at that so I think that's always gonna be his main role in this team. Arteta was playing Partey at RB to compensate for Rice at DM but Rice isn't gonna be a DM unless Zinchenko or someone similar is next to him. I'm kind of rambling here not really making a point.