Kai Havertz: No More Mr Nice Kai

[Blankety Blank]

Well, like I said our 1st choice was Mason Mount who turned us down and you don't see him upfront do you.

Arteta said a lot of things regarding Havertz position but the facts are he's been tried in midfield more than upfront. I'm think you're grasping at straws here.

I think that's a fair point if the links to Mount were true. We were also linked to Gundo who is definitely an AM.

What I will say is that signing Mount would have been an absolute nightmare as he been pretty much injured all season.

While not great as a Left 8 Kai's versatility has offered us so much more.
Let's be honest with Jesus struggling with injuries/form we would have had to use Eddie a lot more.
Not sure we mount a title challenge for the 2nd season running without Kai as an option up top.

 

[MikelHadADream]

Very complete performance from Kai yesterday I thought.

Dropped deep to link the play brilliantly and but was a big threat in behind.

It was very clear to see early on he’s a forward, and a good one at that.

 

[Blankety Blank]

Decent LB option is not good enough if we want to be an elite team. He has to be top level LB. No one would argue if Timber was being converted full time tonRB. But LB is completely different.

I get the point but we shall see how he recovers from injury.
We may well sign a LB but it will depend on outgoings.

 

[celestis]

Very complete performance from Kai yesterday I thought.

Dropped deep to link the play brilliantly and but was a big threat in behind.

It was very clear to see early on he’s a forward, and a good one at that.

He's only 24 , could be anything in a few years.

 

[celestis]

He hardly laid a scratch on Dier and De Ligt at the Allianz, nor was he great vs Porto or Bayern at the Emirates.

His UCL campaign has been shocking with only 1 g/a in a 6-0 drubbing of Lens at the Emirates, so with him at CF next season, I'd put less stocks in us doing well with the tightest of margins in the UCL, doesn't help Jesus is a crock and Nelli technical ability is shocking.

Hopefully the club goes big on midfielders too and wingers because without them we don't have a chance in the expanded UCL competition.

However he does have a CL medal so there is some pedigree there and he did score in the final too .

 

[PrinzPoldi]

Also for both White's goals he was in the centre waiting...

also Trossard's goal

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

It really is that simple.

Nothing wrong with Arteta realizing he offers more up top while doing almost the exact same job i.e. aerial ability, dropping to receive the ball at times.

He is just not that good at progressing play and carrying the ball, the less you have him do that and keep things simple for him, the better. It means he gets to use his movement and runs.

Last night just drives the point further. It's why Trossard and him worked so well when Kai started to get into this run of form.

Weirdly Kai is the heir to Xhaka.

Not in terms of position or ability but in how the fanbase are so divided over everything to do with him

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Weirdly Kai is the heir to Xhaka.

Not in terms of position or ability but in how the fanbase are so divided over everything to do with him

they actually have quite a few similarities

left footed
speak german
played for arsenal and leverkusen
@jones doesn't rate them
both much taller than @Riou

I could go on

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Should add @LookingForEric the reasons Partey at RB didn’t work (and never will imo) is simply because it amplified his worst attributes : 1on1 defending and stamina. Also he’d find himself quite far forward in our attack at times and genuinely looked completely clueless with what to do.

On top of this we lost Ben White the right back who has been one of the players of the season, and Gabriel Megalith who has also been one of our players of the season.

More damage than it’s worth…

Other than consistent bad results, Partey at RB is one of the few things that could legit turn me against Arteta.

It's been a disaster every time he's been there. He's not natural at inverting offensively and he's a horrific defensive RB.

 

[drippin]

When Parety was fit Partey started at RB

There was likely multiple reasons for this. In the Community Shield game the midfield was Partey-Rice-Ødegaard, which Arteta later referenced as a "power midfield". And it should be very obvious that Arteta planned to use this midfield a lot, but Partey's injury ruined it. And Jorginho's niggles made Havertz play LCM more.

Nobody is saying he was brought in as a midfielder ONLY. But you're denying he was primarily brought in to be our new LCM

I am not denying it per se. Many here push the idea that he was bought as a midfielder only, or suggest it by how they talk about it. Like you did.

I'm saying he was bought as a versatile player, and for this season they didn't buy a proper midfielder, because of Partey and Jorginho being there. They opted for a versatile player who can cover midfield, and Havertz was needed there.

In the long run he was bought as a versatile upgrade for Nketiah, who can also play in midfield. And I said it at the time, when people said that 65 million player won't be a rotational player, that a title challenging team will have such players, just like City has.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

I will admit I was wrong about Kai early on. I felt he was spineless and lacked character.

But I have to say it takes some guts to turn it around considering the flak and mockery he was getting from a lot of football fans.

I still think we can probably bring someone else in this summer but I want him to stay at Arsenal. Guy works his socks off, is versatile and chips in with important goals. Seems a real team player too.

 

[db10_therza]

I will admit I was wrong about Kai early on. I felt he was spineless and lacked character.

But I have to say it takes some guts to turn it around considering the flak and mockery he was getting from a lot of football fans.

I still think we can probably bring someone else in this summer but I want him to stay at Arsenal. Guy works his socks off, is versatile and chips in with important goals. Seems a real team player too.

The best thing about Havertz by far is how you can rub Chelsea fans noses in it after all the grief they gave us about him.

 

[drippin]

I'm checking out of this argument because we are going around in circles. But what I will say is that half of the forum believes Kai was brought in to be a “versatile” option, and the other believes he was brought in to be our Xhaka replacement. Funnily enough, no one here has said Kai would be our CF. What does that tell you?

See here. I said that he will be best as a false 9, moving Jesus more to winger rotation if he could stay fit. And that he is better than Nketiah in every way, so basically I said he will be at least 50/50 the main CF vs. other positions in his first season.

And maybe rotate Ødegaard if needed, which he did when Ødegaard was injured. Luckily he has stayed mostly fit, like Saka.

Next season they will have money to buy the proper top midfielder. And no, it's not because Havertz flopped there, but because it was the long-term plan all along. And he will still play in midfield in certain situations.

Kai Havertz: No More Mr Nice Kai

Was gonna write a long post on how the striker position is the most demanding physically and technically as you have less time and space to operate. This means that you can hide Havertz's technical shortcomings by playing him deeper, while maintaining his biggest strength which is his presence...

arsenal-mania.com

 

[Nunowoolmez]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but in the Chelsea Twitter feed of the game, his goals were simply entered as 'Goal Arsenal' without a goalscorer mentioned. All our other goals had the scorer mentioned.

Haha....gotta love it

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

The best thing about Havertz by far is how you can rub Chelsea fans noses in it after all the grief they gave us about him.

And @A_G. To my knowledge he's never admitted he was wrong about King Kai.

Every time he scores and does that silly celebration I imagine A_G throwing one of his vegan slippers at the TV.

 

[db10_therza]

And @A_G. To my knowledge he's never admitted he was wrong about King Kai.

Every time he scores and does that silly celebration I imagine A_G throwing one of his vegan slippers at the TV.

@A_G basically manifested 007 into existence so when looking at Kai’s stats you need to drop the first 7 games just to take the cosmic force out of the equation which leaves you with 11G 5A in 27 games which is pretty damn respectable really.

 

[drippin]

An update for Havertz output after the international break, starting 25.11.2023.

He has 10+4 in EPL, a goal or assist per 112 minutes. And I think he has played about 50/50 in midfield and false 9, but can't bother to count that.

That's top level output, not to mention his pressing and defending. And he will still improve, it's his 1st season. Even yesterday he had the pass open to Rice, but took a second too long and botched it.

 

[jones]

they actually have quite a few similarities

left footed
speak german
played for arsenal and leverkusen
@jones doesn't rate them
both much taller than @Riou

I could go on

Rated both in their Bundesliga spells, less so in England is more accurate

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

Was gonna write a long post on how the striker position is the most demanding physically and technically as you have less time and space to operate. This means that you can hide Havertz's technical shortcomings by playing him deeper, while maintaining his biggest strength which is his presence and movement, players like Fellaini were effective the most inside the box even though they were midfielders.

But instead of writing that post, I just want to call out the people who dismiss him as a midfielder as BORING. I cant understand how can you not be excited by the fact that playing Havertz in midfield allows us to switch to 2-striker systems at will during our attacks. Dismissing the romantic era of 4-4-2 just like that !

Also I want to note that we played our best and most fluid football when Trossard was upfront and Havertz played as a CM, it seems like a memory long forgotten. Yes, Havertz hasnt mastered his role as a midfielder yet but its a positional awareness issue rather than anything else, this comes with time as he understands the role more and more but some here are blind to his potential and only look at past performances.

I also have a lot to say about how Arteta tinkered with his fullbacks and how that changed the dynamics of the team and how this particularly affected Havertz's role in the team, but I'll leave that for later.

I think Havertz in midfield, making a pseudo 4-4-2 is fine against low blocks were teams don't try to win the midfield battle. It's not fine for instance against Aston Villa, who won the midfield battle because Havertz doesn't have the range of passing for us to control the game against a better midfield.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Rated both in their Bundesliga spells, less so in England is more accurate

Are you slyly saying the English league is stronger than the German league