Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Sapient Hawk]

The difficult part for me we’ve taken 4 points off City this season and are still likely to miss out.

If we title challenge next season under Mikel but don’t win any trophies I think conversations need to be had.

However as of right now we’ve still got a chance at two cups so…

The conversation as it happened.

Mikel: Allow me to make a case for myself.

Powers that be:

 

[Dokaka]

City have genuinely ruined football when anything short of a perfect record for 4 months is considered a failure.

Doubt the 115 charges will do anything but all we can do is hope at this point.

 

[Sapient Hawk]

City have genuinely ruined football when anything short of a perfect record for 4 months is considered a failure.

Doubt the 115 charges will do anything but all we can do is hope at this point.

They won't & that's before we assume they'll actually stick.

From here on out, it's simply a battle of whose endurance will prevail, Pep's or the rest of the league.

 

[lomekian]

What bothers me most about Arteta is his talent ID! The reason why he tries out these weird formations and lineups is because he is forced to due to the lack of specific profiles. I could excuse him for that when we were poor but after £600M spent it's inexcusable.

A squad is like a diet. Walk with me. A balanced diet compromises proteins, carbs, fats, fibre, calcium, minerals and vitamins for the body to function. If you remove one of the above, the body will adapt to these changes; however, if enough time passes, the body will suffer from a lack of nutrients.

The lack of natural 8 has caused us problems all season, but we survived until now. It's why Arteta brought back an out-of-form Zinchenko to compensate for our midfield issues. Think about it, and let me know left-back (who can't defend) was brought in to fix our midfield. The worst thing is that Arteta identified this issue years ago by trying to sign Locatelli and Bruno Guimaraes.

We have no natural overlapping fullback, instead, Arteta expects our wide forwards to hug the touchline. It's a testament to Saka's quality that he can put up decent numbers. But we should expect more.

We have no CF who can regularly score goals. Even Auba suffered under Arteta, and fans blamed it on Auba's old age. The CF has to be a facilitator but is that right when the CF is facilitating for wide forwards who are acres away from goal?

Arteta is like one of those diet extremists on social media who tell you to completely remove carbs from your diet and now you're pissing blood and you can't stay awake at work. Arsenal are now at the mercy of one man’s vision, and we see if it is worth it. It better be.

White is an excellent overlapping full back. We have no overlapping full back on the left, but then most balanced sides only have one at a time. The problem is the two other players we have who can do that have missed almost the entire season. Tomi's good overlapping on the right when actually fit, and Timber should be fine to underlap/overlap/whatever.

Agree our CM needs attention. But again, even with his previous issues, no-one predicted Partey (one of the best 2 6s in the league last year) would miss basically the whole year. And of course Vieira & ESR's injury issues at bad times also proved problematic. But hey, now we all know what the problem is, lets see what the club does before we start slating people's talent ID. For the most part Arteta's talent ID has been good, but not brilliant. Nowhere near peak Wenger, but not as bad as end of days Wenger. Either way he and Edu need to find some more diamonds in the rough and more undervalued guys. That's where Klopp excelled for his first few years.

Re CF, we do need a faclitiating forward, and there is no doubt that be left side balance of our team has been poor this year...partly due to personnel, partly injuries and partly tactical. I'll be hugely disappointed if this doesn't change. Martinelli is twice the player when he can both run the land AND be a second striker.

My guess from comments made and what little we saw is that Timber was going be a huge part of fixing that as he can overlap, invert and sit all very comfortably.

 

[lomekian]

I had this discussion with @db10_therza the other day. If you look at the top spending clubs on players in the league and count the number of times they’ve dropped out of the top 6 in the last 20 years:

City 1 (since 2008 when they bagged an oligarch), United 1, Chelsea 2. Money is like a cork, it keeps you buoyant. Arsenal 2, Liverpool 4.

A study of the prem shows us that the more money you spend the better your odds of winning. If you’re expecting a closer relationship like predicting exactly where you’ll finish, you’ll be disappointed. Let’s say for example that money is 70% of where you’ll finish, the other 30% - manager effect, injuries, transfer success etc can affect positions. What is it you don’t understand, same goes to @DJ_Markstar?

Perhaps more importantly we also see that while what you say is definiyely true, all it takes is a bad appointment or some bad decisions, and not even £££ can keep you competitive. So while Arteta has had dosh to spend, Chelsea and Utd are perfect illustrations that he still has to be an excellent manager to compete.

 

[LookingForEric]

Man like @RunTheTrap just did an essay on how a manager who has built a title challenging squad has 0 talent ID.

Where are these people made?

 

[Makingtrax]

Perhaps more importantly we also see that while what you say is definiyely true, all it takes is a bad appointment or some bad decisions, and not even £££ can keep you competitive. So while Arteta has had dosh to spend, Chelsea and Utd are perfect illustrations that he still has to be an excellent manager to compete.

It all depends what you mean by competitive. If you mean challenging for the title, I agree. Arteta is a very good coach, but to win the title you need to be a very good manager. And the two are different. When the chips are down the manager has to carry you over the line with the right man management skills and mentality. We’re talking human relationships. Wenger, SAF, Klopp and Pep all had that ability. Does Arteta? We’re about to find out.

 

[Rasmi]

We are at the stage of the season where he gets it wrong game after game and react crazy. I have less faith in him than the players

 

[Makingtrax]

City have genuinely ruined football when anything short of a perfect record for 4 months is considered a failure.

Doubt the 115 charges will do anything but all we can do is hope at this point.

Why have they ruined football? City have found an exceptional manager to maximise the money they have. The dominance is similar to United’s under Ferguson when they did exactly the same between 2005 and 2012/13. 5 titles and 3x 2nds. It’s no different. Pep will move on and City will drop a little, like United did.

 

[RunTheTrap]

Man like @RunTheTrap just did an essay on how a manager who has built a title challenging squad has 0 talent ID.

Where are these people made?

I don't want us to merely be challengers; I want us to win. The margin for error between first and second place is tiny, yet the consequences are massive.

 

[LookingForEric]

I don't want us to merely be challengers; I want us to win. The margin for error between first and second place is tiny, yet the consequences are massive.

That wasn’t your point brother.

You alluded to the fact that his talent ID is/has been poor.

The difference between winning the league and challenging is no longer talent ID and more huge sums of money for ready made players (like Rice). Where you don’t need talent ID.

The talent ID part is more players who fit your philosophy and playstyle. Which he has done a 9/10 job on thus far.

 

[Riou]

@Macho

 

[LookingForEric]

Why have they ruined football? City have found an exceptional manager to maximise the money they have. The dominance is similar to United’s under Ferguson when they did exactly the same between 2005 and 2012/13. 5 titles and 3x 2nds. It’s no different. Pep will move on and City will drop a little, like United did.

If found guilty then they would’ve ruined a portion of the last 20 years of football due to cheating.

 

[Riou]

@Macho

Some football fans are amazing, ngl...how do they find the energy for this after all we have been through these past 3 seasons?

If I was there I would be in the corner, crying into my 4th empty pint glass over the Villa loss, just pleading with God to let us beat Bayern

 

[Macho]

Some football fans are amazing, ngl...how do they find the energy for this after all we have been through these past 3 seasons?

If I was there I would be in the corner, crying into my 4th empty pint glass over the Villa loss, just pleading with God to let us beat Bayern

It's still a good season that's why

As good a season you could have without winning anything, you could build on this with the right signings. Plus there is more to supporting a club than winning and losing.

 

[Riou]

It's still a good season that's why

As good a season you could have without winning anything, you could build on this with the right signings. Plus there is more to supporting a club than winning and losing.

Just tried of partially not winning, but also just how we tend to do things...we start really well and then just implode like a massive joke and get rightly mocked for it... it's crushing my spirit this!

The pre season (minimum) expectations for our last 3 years...

21/22...get back in the Top Six.
22/23...get back in the Top Four.
23/24...stay in the Top Four.

...if we did things in a different way (and picked up a trophy or two, here and there) then all our last 3 seasons would be seen as a massive successes.

Instead they all (this one pending) have felt like massive failures, which is OF COURSE the way we ****ing do it.

Hate football

 

[Riou]

I would also argue that if we don't win anything this season, then it's not been a good year imo.

We keep improving that's true, but it doesn't always mean you will keep improving either...as Wenger said in his preview to our game with Bayern tonight, "You cannot decide when success happens" ...you have to take your chance.

Opportunities to win present themselves and you HAVE to take them, as they don't always come along...if you miss one then that's not too damaging, but we have (seemingly) missed quite a few these past few years.

With the money we have spent since 2021, to have zero trophies isn't good enough...we need to start winning very soon.

 

[Dokaka]

Why have they ruined football? City have found an exceptional manager to maximise the money they have. The dominance is similar to United’s under Ferguson when they did exactly the same between 2005 and 2012/13. 5 titles and 3x 2nds. It’s no different. Pep will move on and City will drop a little, like United did.

Because they have combined extreme financial doping with an all-time great manager. Their wage bill is still extreme despite efforts to cut it down which allows to have world class players everywhere, including on the bench.

The worst part is the media does everything to ignore this and played up the Pep vs. Klopp rivalry like it was an equal fight, despite Klopp having just above half the available money to spend on wages etc. Guardiola is obviously brilliant but the fact Klopp has even managed to challenge him in the ways he has is baffling when you consider the financial aspects. Arsenal has spent a lot on players recently in an effort to catch up but they're still years of spending behind + way below City's wage bill still.

Ferguson turned Man Utd into the giant it became. They hadn't won a league title in like 30 years or something before he arrived IIRC. Guardiola brought his elite skillset to a ready-made doped up juggernaut.

 

[jones]

Because they have combined extreme financial doping with an all-time great manager. Their wage bill is still extreme despite efforts to cut it down which allows to have world class players everywhere, including on the bench.

The worst part is the media does everything to ignore this and played up the Pep vs. Klopp rivalry like it was an equal fight, despite Klopp having just above half the available money to spend on wages etc. Guardiola is obviously brilliant but the fact Klopp has even managed to challenge him in the ways he has is baffling when you consider the financial aspects. Arsenal has spent a lot on players recently in an effort to catch up but they're still years of spending behind + way below City's wage bill still.

Ferguson turned Man Utd into the giant it became. They hadn't won a league title in like 30 years or something before he arrived IIRC. Guardiola brought his elite skillset to a ready-made doped up juggernaut.

City weren't a juggernaut when Guardiola went there they were starting the like a washed Sagna and Clichy pair of FBs with Hart behind them.

Also Ferguson spent absurd amounts himself.

 

[RunTheTrap]

City have genuinely ruined football when anything short of a perfect record for 4 months is considered a failure.

Doubt the 115 charges will do anything but all we can do is hope at this point.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1780560958433145025

I get what you're saying but this resonated with me that I had to share. Beating City to a title is a behemoth task but one that is certainly doable. Let's not forget Leicester beat City to a title that was led by Pep. Let's not act like we aren't spending crazy sums of money too. We beat City to sign Rice.

How can you complain about City's money when you have beaten them to a player's signature? If money was that much of a game-changer then Chelsea and United would be flourishing. Are we going to blame City for Arsenal keeping Eddie, Nelson and ESR? Should we blame City's 115 charges on Arsenal buying Vieira and Havertz? Is Pep to blame for Partey, Jesus and Zinny getting injured?