Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[DJ_Markstar]

Listen to the way Bellingham describes Carlo here. Granted, Madrid don't have the same sort of pressure of a title drought or never having won the CL that we do but listen to that and imagine any of our players saying this honestly about Mikel.

Did Rio Ferdinand just describe Figo as "an ex-player" as if Bellingham wouldn't have known

But yeah funnily enough I was having this discussion with my RM supporting friend talking about how Real Chadrid are a 'big balls' club and Arsenal used to be all about that sort of personality with your Bergkamp/Henry/Vieira/Pires type chads (not in Europe but we've done things in England that required big balls, winning the league unbeaten, winning it at Old Toilet, most FA Cups etc.)

We were both saying about how many Arsenal fans perhaps don't like Arteta's style because he's a system manager rather than a guy who lets guys like a Bellingham or a Valverde have freedom to express on the pitch. I know its been discussed on here before but was interesting in light of what you posted and the conversation I had earlier.

 

[lomekian]

I agree, there has been some overreaction on here, especially after Aston Villa, but it is the way we lose games.

I feel like Arteta is making basic errors over and over again. Did you understand the Jorginho to Jesus sub last night? For me, Jorginho was the only one progressing the ball well, if you take him off, put Partey on, or hell, even Zinchenko or Vieira. You don’t move Havertz back there and have another player who is not comfortable on the ball in the middle of the park.

I didn't have a problem with it, because, for all that Jorgi was the only one progressing the ball, its not like that was leading to anything, and we all know Jorgi can't last 90 mins at this level of intensity at the mo because he's been carrying an injury for months.

I did ponder the Partey option at the time, but then Partey has in recent cameos spent the first 10-15 mins looking like a 70s stop animation. Basically we weren't going anwhere so Jesus and Trossard made sense. The former to create chaos, and the latter being our best finisher if a chance came.

Bigger issue was that once Bayern scored our players looked knackered and several lost their composure in attacking situations. On the whole, its been a great debut ECL campaign for Saka but vs Porto and bar his opening goal vs Bayern he's looked a callow inexperienced kid.

Of course the biggest issue is that Martinelli finally found his form and then got injured and has looked terrible since that injury. Meant they could focus on shutting down our right as our left side is a mess at the mo, and lacks that spark that Martinelli can give when on form that makes up for the post Xhaka lack of cohesion

 

[Batman]

Did Rio Ferdinand just describe Figo as "an ex-player" as if Bellingham wouldn't have known

But yeah funnily enough I was having this discussion with my RM supporting friend talking about how Real Chadrid are a 'big balls' club and Arsenal used to be all about that sort of personality with your Bergkamp/Henry/Vieira/Pires type chads (not in Europe but we've done things in England that required big balls, winning the league unbeaten, winning it at Old Toilet, most FA Cups etc.)

We were both saying about how many Arsenal fans perhaps don't like Arteta's style because he's a system manager rather than a guy who lets guys like a Bellingham or a Valverde have freedom to express on the pitch. I know its been discussed on here before but was interesting in light of what you posted and the conversation I had earlier.

Rio assumes that everyone is as dumb as he is apparently lol. Jude is a very sharp young man with great respect for and knowledge of the history of the game. Yeah we have certainly lost some individuality. I think it's part of the broader discussion that a lot of us have been having across different threads about where the game is now in terms of the kind of prodigious talents that every big club used to have multiples of versus now even big clubs being made mostly of system athletes rather than wizards. Arteta and Pep probably take this to the extreme and then you have Carlo who is from a different generation with a more pure approach and appreciation for the improvisational nature of the sport.

 

[A_G]

 

[dka1]

Waiting till all the hot takes and overreactions stop before wading in this pool but this post caught my eye:



Isn’t this just down to the fact that Arteta’s methods are much more structured and regimented than the way Arsène liked to see attacking football played which was more improv and off the cuff?

Throwing on a bunch of attackers completely ruins the well defined game plan that has been drilled into the players, so it’s not surprising to me that they might struggle. It’s just one of the cons of going down the JDP route.

...hmm....hmm...

Just double penetration?

.......Juego de Posición....Juego de Posición that's it.

 

[El Duderino]

That's proper Arsenal DNA, ngl. Our Februaries used to be like this under Wenga.

 

[El Duderino]

...hmm....hmm...

Just double penetration?

.......Juego de Posición....Juego de Posición that's it.

Swear to god I might add Juego do Posicíon to the banned phrases list.

****ing nerds.

 

[2Smokeyy]

@jones them man in Germany have no ratings for these pashun and desire English teams how’s he saying what is Arsenal? Lmaooooo

 

[lomekian]

Waiting till all the hot takes and overreactions stop before wading in this pool but this post caught my eye:



Isn’t this just down to the fact that Arteta’s methods are much more structured and regimented than the way Arsène liked to see attacking football played which was more improv and off the cuff?

Throwing on a bunch of attackers completely ruins the well defined game plan that has been drilled into the players, so it’s not surprising to me that they might struggle. It’s just one of the cons of going down the JDP route.

I largely agree with you. its the old Wenger Jazz vs Pep Symphony vs Klopp Thrash Metal analogy.

I think its also personnel. Arteta (possibly truamatised by his time as a player here) has prioritised defence and defensive midfield. THe spending ratio to this effect has been commented on many times. Its why when we get a 2 goal lead, we usually look impregnable vs the latter Wenger (and Unai) chaos at the back. But the down side is we've not spent much on the front end, meaning that unlike Wenger we simply don't have that much real quality on the bench to chase a game. Its all multifunction players or kids trying to prove themselves.

Can Arteta free himself from the JDP shackles? Hard to say without more attacking quality in the squad. But at the start of the season we all knew that at the end of this season we'd be looking for attacking reinforcements, and not much has changed. I like Eddie, but being able to bring him, Nelson, a rehabilitating ESR or a mostly injured Vieira off the bench is unlikely to make Wenger jazz ball work as well as when Arsène had the likes of Podolski, Cazorla, Rosicky, Wilshere, Giroud etc off the bench.

 

[dka1]

Hey, I'm not disputing that Bayern deserved to go through. They and their coach taught our team and our coach some lessons. But they also got us at a time that suited them just fine and was not great for us. A month before and I'd have fancied us to beat them becuase we were cruising to easy wins and they were at their peak implosion moment, which they have recovered from.

Hmm I dunno about this.

At least in the first leg, I think we went into the game in good form. In fact it more feels like facing Bayern started this little mini turn in form rather than the other way around.

 

[boonthegoon]

How many games is that without a set piece goal? Jover out!

 

[lomekian]

They could at least let us ****ing finish April before pulling out this ****. Not like we've got 3 games left in the month or anything...Sky **** click farmers

 

[Nunowoolmez]

Did Rio Ferdinand just describe Figo as "an ex-player" as if Bellingham wouldn't have known

But yeah funnily enough I was having this discussion with my RM supporting friend talking about how Real Chadrid are a 'big balls' club and Arsenal used to be all about that sort of personality with your Bergkamp/Henry/Vieira/Pires type chads (not in Europe but we've done things in England that required big balls, winning the league unbeaten, winning it at Old Toilet, most FA Cups etc.)

We were both saying about how many Arsenal fans perhaps don't like Arteta's style because he's a system manager rather than a guy who lets guys like a Bellingham or a Valverde have freedom to express on the pitch. I know its been discussed on here before but was interesting in light of what you posted and the conversation I had earlier.

We're getting there....slowly.

Rice, White, Saliba, Gabi, & Ode are the personalities. Ode less so, but he is the one outstanding player in our team & leads by example, so he a big personality in that respect.

We desperately need some wow factor players & genuine game changers, like the ones from the glory days. Easier said than done tho & do they fit the Teta ideaology (no ego's, blah blah blah).

Just purely from an ability & talent perspective, I think a Rodrygo & a Leao & someone like Isak would elevate the side massively.

 

[Nunowoolmez]

We're the April fools lol

 

[lomekian]

How many games is that without a set piece goal? Jover out!

Have you noticed that since Porto did it to great effect, opposing teams have all started throwing themselves to the floor whenever we have a corner or IDFK?

 

[db10_therza]

We're getting there....slowly.

Rice, White, Saliba, Gabi, & Ode are the personalities. Ode less so, but he is the one outstanding player in our team & leads by example, so he a big personality in that respect.

It’s sad that of the 5 personalities you list only one is an attacker

Goes back to the point @lomekian was making about Arteta focusing on our defence.

And that’s fine, we needed it. But this summer I swear down if we don’t buy some elite attacking talent, I’ll either rage quit AM or insist that @Riou does on my behalf…

 

[dka1]

Three more games in April to improve this stat for 2023/24, let's do our best to make it a 62.5% win rate overall (if my math is mathing).

 

[boonthegoon]

Have you noticed that since Porto did it to great effect, opposing teams have all started throwing themselves to the floor whenever we have a corner or IDFK?

European refs are more strict in regards to pushing in the box and give away an easy free kick. It happened a lot vs Bayern. But still our set pieces in the PL haven't been good for a while as well

 

[Fabregasm]

We're the April fools lol

Consistent bottler considering all Aprils we were playing for some stake

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

You are an to something, but I think its more specific. Arteta has repeatedly failed at what Wenger was so good at, which was 'we desperately need a goal, **** it, I'll throw on all the attacking players and somehow get them to function together' mode.

Arteta's teams get a lot of late goals because they are very willing and tire opponents when they play well.

Wenger's had that, but also he was much better than Mikkel at somehow making a 3 strikers, 4 wingers and a playmaker formation work late on in games. Arteta hasn't yet worked out how to overwhelm the opposition when they are leading and well set up defensively to anything like the same level. Possibly partly personnel, as Wenger always spent f-all on defensive players but splurged on number 10s...

I agree with you but to me the last 10 minutes or so were an abomination.

I'll probably get hammered on here for loving Brexit ball or something but it was crystal clear towards the death that Tuchel has tactically nullified us.

You've got to switch things up in the last few minutes, I don't want to see ponderous little triangle passes in our defensive third in injury time. Get the ball out to Ødegaard or Saka or White ASAP and pump it into the box.

We've got the best set piece ( okay not quite the same situation) and aerial threats in the PL, may as well use it as a last resort. Havertz and chuck Saliba and Rice up there and have the rest gambling on them doing something in the box. You're at least going to cause a bit of chaos and nerves for Bayern.

To be fair there's a decent chance we'd have been caught on the counter but at least it would have felt like we threw everything at Bayern. If we're going out who cares if it's 1-0 or 2-0.