PL: Middlesbrough vs Arsenal | 10/09/05

[jay-d]

Wenger says:

Arsenal manager Arsène Wenger:
"We never should have lost. We should have shown more determination.

"I feel that we had very good patches in the game - we could have won this game in the first 20 minutes with three clear chances but we did not take them.

"We missed our chances and we gave them presents for their two goals. We were good enough to win this game."

I say,

Arsenal Mania forum member jay-d:

"Wenger your blind faith is your one weakspot, how could you expect 3 CM's to be sufficient for a whole season? How can you sell our club captain and not replace him? Why do you persist in playing your favourites, Bergy and Pires when they are clearly over the hill. It's not their fault especially in Bergys case but age is a great leveller. Why did you not strengthen the squad this summer? Why do you make the same mistake over and over again this will be the third time our squad has been exposed due to blind faith. And when are you gonna make substitutions that actually influence the game?
Yes you are the best man for the job but your not the infalible man some forum members try to make you out to be, you like any man alive has faults that need to be addressed. So please address them."

 

[DC Gunner]

sensible post, raph.

dc gunner, i'd answer by saying no, flamini and cygan are not arsenal starting material. then again, flamini is third-choice in MF (i'm not saying he's great, but i dont think hes as bad as he played today) and cygan is fourth-choice at centre-half, so your question is somewhat misguided, anyway.

You can think it is "misguided", I sure don't think so. 8)

That's The way I see it: IF we got an injury/suspension in MF with Flamini being the next choice for a starter, then it is a bad sign for us.

I could think of many players "in romours" who were better than Flamini, yet many called them "over-priced and/or not-arsenal-material". Would J. Jenas for £8m been overspending for US [just an example].

Age and youth are not good excuses for him, RVP and JAR are young but I can clearly see the potential being great, with Flamini I just don't see it.

 

[lozzapig]

i know im late into the discussion! but im very disapointed about todays result - do we really sound like a championship wining side? we are no better than last year -where we failed to win the league. we are aiming for the top spot but we seem so far away. i really hope we strengthen ourselfs in the window.

bring on thun - we need to over come this with a deccent performance.


comfort me!!

 

[Anonymous]

Wenger says:

Arsenal manager Arsène Wenger:
"We never should have lost. We should have shown more determination.

"I feel that we had very good patches in the game - we could have won this game in the first 20 minutes with three clear chances but we did not take them.

"We missed our chances and we gave them presents for their two goals. We were good enough to win this game."

I say,

Arsenal Mania forum member jay-d:

"Wenger your blind faith is your one weakspot, how could you expect 3 CM's to be sufficient for a whole season? How can you sell our club captain and not replace him? Why do you persist in playing your favourites, Bergy and Pires when they are clearly over the hill. It's not their fault especially in Bergys case but age is a great leveller. Why did you not strengthen the squad this summer? Why do you make the same mistake over and over again this will be the third time our squad has been exposed due to blind faith. And when are you gonna make substitutions that actually influence the game?
Yes you are the best man for the job but your not the infalible man some forum members try to make you out to be, you like any man alive has faults that need to be addressed. So please address them."

agree

Unfortunately we have moderators here who ban people or lock forums that mention anything against Wenger

Wenger has to be made be accountable. In my pionion over the years because of his stubbornness and faith in idiots like cygan, this has cost us.

We need a midfielder and top striker to challenge United and Chelsea while teams like Liverpool and Sp**s have improved

 

[Anonymous]

When Vieira left I thought we might loose a bit of power and bite but it looks like we have lost our width. The four midfielders are so close together, the only reason I can think for this is compensating for Vieira.

On skysports website they rank players-
http://skysports.planetfootball.com/mat ... 646&clid=3

They described Hleb as 'Bambi-esque'

 

[Anonymous]

Arsenal FC is bigger then any player or manager.
-

Criticsm comes with defeat, as plaudits come with victory.

Wenger accepts praise, so he can accept the negative in the same fashion.

 

[asajoseph]

Unfortunately we have moderators here who ban people or lock forums that mention anything against Wenger

Actually, they don't. If you have negative feelings towards the club or manager, feel free to express them in a rational and well supported manner. I know I do when I think things aren't going well, and as far as I'm concerned there's no problem with it. But just start *****ing like a girl, and you'll get banned before you can say 'Sack Wenger, the board and bring back Upson'.

 

[choi12911]

We can improve on 2 things: offense and defense.

One of the major problems of our defense today (against Boro) was Cygan. He did well during the match most of the times, but when Hleb almost got fouled in the penalty box, there was noise all over the Stadium. At the time, I think Cygan was a bit unfocused and played his position wrong. Instead of marking Maccarone (or whatever his name is), Cygan was more concentrated on the position of the ball. He was looking at the ball (or Yakubu the whole time without checking Maccarone) Yakubu saw that chance, made a pass to Maccarone and it was 1 on 1 with Jens.
Toure looked fairly decent, but Yakubu miscontrolled the ball and got his chance for the 1st goal.
Cole looked very decent today, getting involved in offense many times and also he defended fairly well.
Lauren did not make many mistakes, but I think he is too slow. In the past, he had very hard time against players with quick feet like C. Ronaldo, etc...
Overall, I think we need quality CBs. Cygan is just too slow and sometimes, gets unfocused easily which is horrible for CBs. Quality CBs should be concentrated all the time, reading the game continually throughout the match.

Our offense did not look very threatening except for Reyes who fired shots a few times during the game. One of the problems I see most distinctively is our lack of cross plays. We always seem to be passing in front of the penalty area and it’s obvious that many teams have already figured that out. So instead of spreading defenders around the penalty area, Boro decided to only defend the front of the penalty area, because they know we won’t use the sides. Look at how many times our players like Reyes and Bergkamp tried to get past 5 defenders by trying to pass to each other. It just won’t happen. There are way too many defenders already. We need to start crossing the ball into the penalty area. How many times have we got fouled, got the free kick, but instead of kicking into the penalty area, we just passed around until one of the defenders cleared the ball. Is it because our players can’t head? I don’t know… Our lacks of cross plays as well as flexible formation strategies are costing us many points. It’s time we tried different strategies, with a bit more creativity than just passing around the penalty area.

Also, Bergkamp looked very tired and slow. He lost the ball many times and it led to counter-attacks.
Hleb looked better than most of the players because he and Reyes were the only ones that were creating passes that could actually penetrate Boro’s defense.
Other than Hleb and Reyes, there was no creativity. Pires looked very ordinary and so did Flamini.

Overall, I’m very disappointed that we lost to such a crappy opponent. I could understand us losing to Chelsea because they spend like millions of euros every single summer, but to lose to an opponent like Middlesbrough? We seriously need some changes.

 

[asajoseph]

The problem with Bergkamp is entirely related to his age - all too often we attacked, lost the ball, 'Boro counter attacked and a few seconds later met this blond haired central midfielder on or around the halfway line. Yup, it was Dennis Bergkamp. Trying to influence the play from deep is great, but if you're too tired and slow to get involved in anything but the initial stages of building an attack, you're not much use. He couldn't get up in support of Reyes at all, and it was amazing that Wenger stuck with him for so long.

 

[J the Red]

To be totally honest I half expected us to loose today, and I can see us losing more games in a similar way. But to be fair to 'Boro the amount of times we have gubbed them in the past, they deserve to get something from us. And they, despite some shocking first half defending deserved their win.

From our point then it was same old same old, and its why we wont come higher than 3rd and its why we so often fail in Europe.
And that, ladies and Gentlemen, is because Arsenal have no direct option at all. Arsenal seem to find it mission impossible to work the ball wide and cross it into the box for a header, or to play a simple direct through ball to a striker lurking on the defenders shoulder.....partly because we dont have a) a striker with a physical presence to win an aerial ball and b) because we dont have a predator of a striker prepared to hang on the defenders shoulder.
Its going to be a case of lovely pretty passing football up and until the edge of the area and then lack of incisivness will mean half of the time our 'beautiful passing football' will just amount to nothing.

We are not a one man team, I firmly believe that, but it is becoming evidently clear (as the cup final highlighted so brutally) No Henry, no cutting edge, and no cutting edge means no goals.

All those things in short mean this wont be Arsenal's most succesful season under AW.

However all is not doom and gloom, we have over-achieved anyway to compete with the ManYoo's and Chelsea's of this world up to now and with a box striker like young Arturo Lupoli waiting in the wings this problem could swiftly be resolved.

And as I said to my mates in the pub before the Chelsea game, none of us expect to win the league so instead of getting upset and down in the dumps every time we concede a goal or drop points, why dont we just enjoy the season and go with the ride?, we are in a damn sight better position than most clubs in England and play some sensational football at times. And that this young side will also give its fair share of highs this season. My faith in Arsène Wenger leads me to think that we may have to suffer a dip this season compared to previous campaigns in order to take two steps forward and dramatically improve.


Also on a side issue, something I feel guilty even asking but do you think Thierry is even injured? or is Arsène trying to show him (in light of contract negotiations) that the club is bigger than him or any individual?.....maybe just my warped mind thinking of weird conspiracy's and I hope this is not the case, but surely more people than just me have thought this?

 

[ArsenalwithoutVieira]

I still cant see what Wenger can see in Cygan, im sorry because i'm quite sure this must have been said before, but why play Cygan when neither Senderos or Campbell were injured. Campbell may not be fully fit but i would have played Senderos because i think he would have been on a high after scoring for Switzerland. Rotating the team is fine but not against good opposition. Middlesborough are a top half team and maybe even looking at Europe. If we had been playing against Wigan or Sunderland then I would have understood the rotation. Also Wenger i think has rotated a few players to keep them fit for Mid-week. Mid-week we are only playing FC Thun not Juventus or a top side. Is Wenger concentrating on the Champions League too much this year?

 

[IBL]

asa - thats is pretty much my point too. Bergkamp should be used for home matches against the 'lesser' teams or be used as a sub when the opposition are tiring a bit. He cant keep up with fast-paced games and even though mentally he's still up to it his body can't keep up with his mind. I still love having him around but he's more suited to games such as Fulham at highbury where he played well. RvP could have done with a start, he has good chemistry with Reyes and if RvP did look worse for wear than we could have brought Bergy on later during the match.

 

[the dawn raids]

van Persie has to start, no questions asked. because he seems to be one of the only players we have that will actually take a ****ing shot farther than 5 feet out; and thats not taking into consideration Bergkamps dire display today. why Wenger waits so long to bring vP on is beyond me, let alone not start him. its not a conincidence we started coming back into the game when he came on. i said before the game that we needed to take control of the midfield, which is exactly what we didnt do after the first 15 minutes. these are the same problems weve had, and they dont seem to be going away any time soon. cant beat a Boro team with no Viduka, Hasselbaink, or Downing. :?

for god sakes guys, take a ****ing shot now and then. im begging you.

 

[famous no 10]

All you people who can't stand losing one game: Go support someone else please.

Honestly, what kind of a remark is that? I know I replied before to that, but was too pissed off after the game to elaborate.

One game. Well, that's one defeat to a very mediocre side, a defeat in which we showed no bite, little creativity, poor work rate, and overall, very little to prove we will be anywhere near title contenders...and already that's two defeats in 4 games.

I mean, f**king charlton beat them last week, if we are as good as we think, good enough to keep 40m in the bank, good enough to sell the captain, we should be pissing over teams like this.

So, I should support someone else? Bollocks. I've followed Arsenal since 1974, watched us countless times from the Noth Bank playing crap football, in the pouring rain, getting humiliated by class teams...these are supposed to be the good times, last year at Highbury, new stadium, new era...I feel we are letting ourselves and our own History down. No one can tell me "they don't owe you anything"...yes they f**king do, loads...

I f**king hate us losing, It really f**king hurts when we just don't try to fulfill our potential...but I love our club and to be told to go elsewhere when true supporters feel defeats like this all f**king week long, well....

 

[James]

Just heard on the radio that the players f*d off after the whislte, no surprise there the over paid tossers.

Saying that though the atmosphere in our end sounded piss poor. I could only make out a few muffled chants of ssenal sssenal sssenal. We badly need some more songs.

If it was anything like last year our end would have been full of pissed up clueless scots who for some reason want to support Arsenal, which partly explains the (lack of) atmosphere.

The atmosphere wasn't too bad actually, but the amount of scottish, irish and northerners there was unbelievable. One group even started singing "Arsène Wengers Tartan Army". **** off like.

We need more songs though.

I left just before the whistle, so i dont know whether the players just left the field.

 

[jay-d]

All you people who can't stand losing one game: Go support someone else please.

Honestly, what kind of a remark is that? I know I replied before to that, but was too pissed off after the game to elaborate.

One game. Well, that's one defeat to a very mediocre side, a defeat in which we showed no bite, little creativity, poor work rate, and overall, very little to prove we will be anywhere near title contenders...and already that's two defeats in 4 games.

I mean, f**king charlton beat them last week, if we are as good as we think, good enough to keep 40m in the bank, good enough to sell the captain, we should be pissing over teams like this.

So, I should support someone else? Bollocks. I've followed Arsenal since 1974, watched us countless times from the Noth Bank playing crap football, in the pouring rain, getting humiliated by class teams...these are supposed to be the good times, last year at Highbury, new stadium, new era...I feel we are letting ourselves and our own History down. No one can tell me "they don't owe you anything"...yes they f**king do, loads...

I f**king hate us losing, It really f**king hurts when we just don't try to fulfill our potential...but I love our club and to be told to go elsewhere when true supporters feel defeats like this all f**king week long, well....

Exactly, I can't say i'm as old as you :wink: but i've followed the Arsenal since the mid 80's and i'll be damned if I'm letting someone tell me to support another team because I state that we were poor and the manager has made mistakes already this year. People always refer to the past but we are no longer that mediocore club languishing in mid table obscurity, we are a championship force and standards have been raised and need to kept. We are moving to the best stadium in the country that should show you we are no longer little Arsenal punching above our weight. When we lose I'm angry, but the mistakes that have been made since the summer regarding transfers and up till now including team selections and substitutions really infuriate me and I've spent enough money to earn the right to express that anger. Success breeds more success where as failure does the same, look at Liverpool and to some extent Man U who would of envisaged there positions considering there once domination? Once standards drop they are very hard to reclaim. And yes even if Arsenal did slip into a team fighting for that last champions league qualifier ( yes it could happen ), I would still be a gooner but I won't damn well be happy about it and i'll let everyone know.

 

[RocktheCasbah]

No leadership on the pitch and no idea how to get back into the game when we were two nil down. We looked lightweight and clueless, apart from the first twenty minutes.

We need Sol back, and back properly. I didn't think anyone played particularlt well, but Rob and Dennis lived right down to expectations. Bright spots? Cole, Hleb and (despite the erratic finishing) Reyes.

 

[sabret00the]

Dennis was ineffective going forward but he was well positioned and cut out a few of their counters, saying that he shouldn't have been on the pitch for most of the game. Reyes was my MOTM, Hleb buckled under the pressure, as we went further down his touch went AWOL but he was good bar that, Robin was wasted on the bench, and Cole needs to learn how to finish, we'll get better.

 

[RocktheCasbah]

True about Hleb, he seemed to want too much time as the game progressed. But at least he was trying. I hope Freddie's back for Wednesday, we could do with some of his spirit. I hope Pires gets back to some kind of form soon, because with the old man up front, it's like we're playing with nine men. van Persie should have been on at half time IMO. I'm not gonna get into a Sack Wenger tirade, but the problems many anticipated in the close season are materialising already.

 

[bernard_trollop_dollop]

well well we lost.

our squad is weak. if wenger thinks we can compete for the championship and CL then he must think we are stupid.

i have been saying for years, wenger does not change his ways, no plan B and above all no Vieira replacement and no partner for HENRY.

I really hope Henry refuses to sign, as this would kick wenger up his ass to improve the team


We lost today , of 3 bad performances in cygan, flumani & the old goat berkamp

we needed a class striker today. didn't wenger say yesterday he missed out a striker at the transfer deadline

i wonder what he was offered , two goats and a plough horse. f****g useless

i for one like him to go. Like Sven , he has bocome yesterday's men

i also believe the scrum Sp**s have become a better team then us and win beat us. And that will be the final straw.

I couldnt agree more, wenger needs to wake up and smell some frogs legs, hes arragant and big-headed not buying jack all in the transfer window and it serves him right for being such a poon

This is the 2nd loss wake up and smell the reality ppl its not going to get any better than this
Ok we'll probably go and score 9 past everton, then we loose to bolton or something stupid