Jermaine Jenas

[jasonlohkh]

The most basic point about transfers is that, if you want a player, you pay the market price, and the market price is not what you personally judge to be appropriate but whatever the latest highest bid is. If you don't pay it, someone else will. We have difficulty grasping this. I'm not making any specific point about Jenas, but about our general attitude.

As a club, we seem to approach a transfer with our own personal valuation of a player's "true" value and refuse to pay anything above that, even when we can actually afford it. That's fine from a moral perspective, but ultimately someone else gets the player. When Chelsea win the title this season, nobody is going to be impressed when we say "ah, yeah, but they overpaid for a couple of their players, whereas we got Hleb for a reasonable price". Part of being a big club is overpaying to get your man. It is a short term sacrifice to secure a long term gain.

spot on.

 

[goonerlove]

JGooner, that kind of attitude/approach doesn't work long-term with a team like Arsenal. We have financial constraints and part of AW's success has been the purchase of good/great players for very good prices (yes there are exceptions - but it is hard to argue with his results per pound).

What I love about AW is that he seems to constantly weigh current needs with long-term thinking. He doesn't get in a panic based on one player not coming or one player leaving and he sticks with a smart strategy of investing heavily in youth.

Am I frustrated this summer? Yes. I am a fan and I am disappointed to see us so woefully underspend compared to our 2 rivals; however, I also appreciate that we are going to be very nicely set up for our first year in Ashburton and that we have an extremely talented nucleus of young players who are only going to get better - and who could be world stars in the next 5 years. And we have Henry - who is still only 28.

AW has discipline - which is EXACTLY what any manager except Chelsea must have to be successful long-term. We have never had the financial resources of ManU either, but we have managed to compete - and we are arguably the stronger side the last 2 years.

What we can hope for is a misstep from Chelsea - a key draw or loss or string of draws that starts to unsettle them - and combine that with people getting tired of sitting on the bench and a group that seemingly has an unending lovefest will turn into the mercenaries that they are... how many of their players have been there for more than 2 years? 3 years?

Arsenal has nothing to lose... if we get a string of victories going and Reyes starts to really hit his stride... and Hleb shows that he is a star ... and Fabregas takes another step.. and Gilberto stays healthy... and Senderos gets consistent form back (wtf was the Community Shield performance all about?)... we can be right there with Chelsea at the end... and then ALL the pressure will be on them.

If you analyze last year - we stumbled in the middle of the year and dropped points like crazy... but at the beginning and at the end (especially at the end), we looked to be as good as anyone in the league.

We can still dominate most teams... getting victories when we should and finding ways to stifle ManU and CHelsea when we play them will be key.

But lets be realistic about the kind of team we are and the kind of manager we have... we wouldn't have approved if he was a freewheeling spender before and we shouldn't now.

Goonerlove

 

[goonerlove]

oh and ask Leeds about financial restraint...

Goonerlove

 

[Lord Dula]

The most basic point about transfers is that, if you want a player, you pay the market price, and the market price is not what you personally judge to be appropriate but whatever the latest highest bid is. If you don't pay it, someone else will. We have difficulty grasping this. I'm not making any specific point about Jenas, but about our general attitude.

As a club, we seem to approach a transfer with our own personal valuation of a player's "true" value and refuse to pay anything above that, even when we can actually afford it. That's fine from a moral perspective, but ultimately someone else gets the player. When Chelsea win the title this season, nobody is going to be impressed when we say "ah, yeah, but they overpaid for a couple of their players, whereas we got Hleb for a reasonable price". Part of being a big club is overpaying to get your man. It is a short term sacrifice to secure a long term gain.

Good post.

I'd like to add to that by saying that more often than not we sell our players at values above those which would be considered truly reasonable.

So it's swings and roundabouts.

Our net transfer spend over the past few years is fairly modest.

The fact that it is not high suggests that the club does not generate much revenue from activities outside of player transfers.

Either that or we have high outgoings which cover the majority of our income. Sol's big fat salary anyone? Infact, the aforementioned explains our reluctance to break the strict wage structure we have in place.

 

[burnsjed]

If you analyze last year - we stumbled in the middle of the year and dropped points like crazy... but at the beginning and at the end (especially at the end), we looked to be as good as anyone in the league.

Now I know the knock in confidence clearly hiondered us during this period, but so did the lack of depth in the squad, something we all hoped would be sorted out this summer, alas....

 

[Lord Dula]

Adding to my last post - ofcourse the expenses may be low and money generated could be sitting in a bank, or under David Deins pillow. Rumours suggest we have a large warchest, but who really knows?

Arent Arsenal floated on Ofex? I'm not sure if that entitles anyone to a set of their financial statements. Would be a good read.

 

[sleepwalker119]

ive changed my mind about Jenas

we have the money there why not spend 10 million on him ?

hes on **** all money with Newcastle so im sure he would accept around 30-40k a week at most

we really do need one more central midfielder for the season

people on this board are really under-rating Flamini though i thought he played exceptionally well towards the end of last season

 

[goonerlove]

I am honestly not as worried about center-mid as I am about striker. With Reyes looking more and more like a winger and with Bergkamp aging, we have the following after Henry:

1) RVP
2) Reyes
3) Bergkamp
4) Lupoli/Quincy/?

With RVP looking really good, you might think we are solid. But he is still young and has not yet had a full season as a starter. Reyes still looks inconsistent to me and may be better suited to winger. Bergkamp is getting old and cannot be counted on for that many matches/minutes. Lupoli and Quincy are unproven at the top level.

If Gilberto goes down to injury - we still have Flamini... if Sol goes down to injury, we have Senderos... if Henry goes down to injury, we are in some trouble... We have exactly ONE proven striker on our squad, considering Bergkamp's age.

That is my biggest area of worry - we simply have NO room for error at striker this year and with the Baptista disappointment, we will continue to rely on wingers and Henry to carry the scoring load...

If we are going to bring in another center mid, I would love to see Ballack because he offers us a totally new attacking dimension.. otherwise, I don't see the point unless Gil's back is still bothering him... Fabregas, Flamini, Hleb, Pires (ok not great, but can) can all step into the middle if necessary.

Goonerlove

 

[JGooner]

oh and ask Leeds about financial restraint...

Goonerlove

If we refused to overpay because we feared financial oblivion - which has certainly been the case for much of Wenger's time here - then fine. But my point was that we seem to also sometimes refuse to over-pay on a sheer point of principle. That may be very admirable in the moral abstract but it is suicidal in competitive sport because some other team will pay the market price, obtain the player and improve their squad relative to yours.

As I said, part of being a big club is occasionally overpaying to secure a player you really want. It's a tactical loss for strategic gain - the very essence of big club maturity and foresight. Of course we can't compete with Chelsea for the blue chip signings (the £20m+ bracket) but if we strongly believe that a player in the bracket below (say, £10-15m) would add something major and long-term to our team, then we should be willing to swallow an excessive fee to get our manl.

In our defence, you could say we did just that with Baptista - we were willing to go a long way financially to get him (to the point where Seville apparently accepted a bid from us) and it was only the player's preferences that made the signing impossible. But this seems to be an exception rather than the rule.

 

[hayesstreet]

oh and ask Leeds about financial restraint...

Goonerlove

While it may be true that we pay over market value less often than other clubs, that undoubtably contributes to the well being of the club long term - both on the field and off. In a down market we get deals like everyone else. In an up market we get younger less refined talent. Financially its great for the stability of the club - rather than being a one shot deal like Leeds. By all accounts Arsène has money but its silly to propose that he spend it unless he finds the right player. He proved with Bap that he would splurge on a talent. There is a reason you avoid overpaying a bunch of different players - in the long run they'll be a drain on your resources even while declining in value on the field. NO club can sustain that permanently. To have, as a matter of policy, the opinion that only in the extreme situation do you overpay for a player, is a sound decision. Further, it is a fundamental mistake for each of those clubs that DO overpay for players consistently and that is our gain if we don't make the same error.

 

[Tony Montana]

According to the Evening Standard, Tottenham are closing in on the deal. Doesn't matter, we will buy a better player in the future.

 

[Canuck]

Today on Soccernet.
Keane bait could tempt Magpies
Arsène has rule out a move for Jenas but Spuds are all over it now possibly offering Keane to sweeten the deal for Newcastle who are getting desparate for a proven goal scorer.

Would be another good deal for Spuds IMO. They don't need Keane really and could use more experience in MF>

 

[eikaz]

jermaine jenas????? he is nothing..i think Javier Macherano is better than him..

 

[Ratinho]

ngngngngngngngngngngngngngngngng :roll:

Yep, let's have the Mascherano conversation again.

Surely he's available at less than £10m.

* feel free to warn me for the baiting Asa. :?

 

[HardStyle]

I'd be very, very, very suprised if we sign anymore players this summer. Less than two weeks to go now and I would say that it's almost over for non-EU players due to the time a work-permit takes to process, especialy if it is rejected the first time.

Toldo has been mentioned a few times, although I don't see that happening. I don't see anything happening for the rest of the summer, too. I'd be absolutely delighted if I was proven wrong, though.

 

[Army of Me]

oh god... anyone but toldo!

 

[celestis]

ummmm did anyone notice , I think it was a skysports article based on the post match interview wenger is quoted on the topic of jenas that he has another three weeks to decide on jenas . what do you suppose he meant by that ?

 

[Army of Me]

it's no secret he's interested, he just needs some time to decide whether he wants to spend any money.

 

[famous no 10]

it's no secret he's interested, he just needs some time to decide whether he wants to spend any money.

possibly after hell freezes over.

 

[goonerwarsh]

Just spoke to a friend of mine who I work with. He was a guest of David Dein's at the Newcastle game, he got to go down to the dressing rooms after the game and meet Wenger and the players. He was out of the office last week but I was asking about it today.

He said that Dein was saying that it was never a sending off, my friend who is a Geordie said that it's a shame as Jenas will miss the next three games and Dein replied, "Yes, but he may not be missing them games for Newcastle" nudge nudge wink wink

Read into that what you will, it could mean anything but my mate thinks that we're definitely in for Jenas. Thought it was worth mentioning.

He also said that when he met Wenger he was talking to different players in their native tongue, and must have used at least three different languages...he's clever that bloke